TESTIMONY OF MRS. LYDIA DYMITRUK

The testimony of Mrs. Lydia Dymitruk was taken on March 25, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex. by Mr. Albert E. Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. JENNER. I am Albert Jenner.
Mrs. Dymitruk, will you stand to be sworn, please? I am about to take your testimony by deposition. Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I do.
Mr. JENNER. Thank you. Be seated please.
Mrs. Dymitruk, I am Albert E. Jenner, Jr. I am a member of the staff counsel and consultant for and to the Commission appointed by the President of the United States to investigate the assassination of President Kennedy. Now this is a Commission appointed pursuant to Executive Order of the President of the United States, Mr. Lyndon B. Johnson, No. 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of the Congress of the United States No. 137. Have you received a letter from J. Lee Rankin, the general counsel for the Commission, asking if you would come here and depose or have your deposition taken?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; I have.
Mr. JENNER. And included with that letter were copies of the Executive order and the resolution to which I have made reference?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And, pursuant to that request, as a lot of other fine American citizens, you are appearing voluntarily here this morning?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; I am.
Mr. JENNER. As it appears from the Executive order and the resolution, the Commission is investigating all the circumstances we can obtain respecting and relating to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and also the subsequent death of Lee Oswald, and persons involved in those two unfortunate events. And it is our information that you have some possible information that might help us with respect to Marina Oswald and Lee Oswald, and I should like to question you about that.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir; I am ready.
Mr. JENNER. You seem a little excited. Why don't you sit back and relax, pull your chair around and be comfortable. Nothing's going to happen to you.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I'm not afraid.
Mr. JENNER. Your name is Lydia Dymitruk?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And do I correctly pronounce your name?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir; that's all right.
Mr. JENNER. And it is spelled [spelling] L-y-d-i-a. And Dymitruk is [spelling] D-y-m-i-t-r-u-k?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. You live at 3542 1/2 10th Street in Fort Worth?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And I'm not going to ask you if Fort Worth is a suburb of Dallas--because I understand that would offend you.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir [laughter].
Mr. JENNER. But it is a large Texas city about, what--25 or 30 miles from here?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir; I like it very much.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, it's a splendid town. You're employed at the Neiman-Marcus store in Fort Worth?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. I understand that's a beautiful store.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. It is--it is beautiful store and nice place to work--and I like it.
Mr. JENNER. How long have you resided in Fort Worth?

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Mrs. DYMITRUK. How long I'm in Fort Worth?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Let me see--I think it was from August.
Mr. JENNER. Of what year?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Last year.
Mr. JENNER. 1962?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. 1962--yes.
Mr. JENNER. All right. And where have you resided prior to August 1962?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Why?
Mr. JENNER. Where? You came to Fort Worth in August 1962, did you say?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yeah; yeah.
Mr. JENNER. From where?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. From Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. From Dallas?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You had been a resident of Dallas up to that time?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. How long had you been a resident of Dallas?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Oh, about 4 years--and 3, 4 months.
Mr. JENNER. And from where had you come when you came to Dallas?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. From Belgium--Brussels.
Mr. JENNER. Are you a native of Belgium?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir; I am a citizen of Belgium.
Mr. JENNER. You are a citizen----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Born in Soviet Union.
Mr. JENNER. I might occasionally have to ask what might be considered personal questions but I'm not merely curious--I'm seeking information.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That's okay.
Mr. JENNER. What is your age?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Thirty-seven.
Mr. JENNER. Thirty-seven. Are you married?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Have you ever been married?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. In this country or in Belgium or in Russia?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I was married in Belgium.
Mr. JENNER. Married in Belgium?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did your husband come with you to this country?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. He came first to United States, and I came afterward.
Mr. JENNER All right. Tell me how and the circumstances of your coming from Russia, where you were born, to Belgium.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. In 1942, we were kidnaped from the Germans during the war and brought to Germany--Dusseldorf.
Mr. JENNER. Was this your parents and you?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No; just sister--an older sister and I and that's all. We are separated from the family.
Mr. JENNER. And the German Army took you to Dusseldorf?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And then you were freed by the advancing Allied armies, essentially?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. The Americans.
Mr. JENNER. The Americans?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. All right. And you and your sister went to Belgium, did you?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; 1945. After the war.
Mr. JENNER Now, my arithmetic is very bad. How old were you then?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. In 1945?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.

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Mrs. DYMITRUK. Oh, 17.
Mr. JENNER. All right. So you were about 15 years old when you were captured by the Germans?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Where did you live in Russia when you were captured by the Germans?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Rostov.
Mr. JENNER. [Spelling] R-o-s-t-o-v?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Or is that "o-w"?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No; it's "v".
Mr. JENNER. Did you have any brothers?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No.
Mr. JENNER. Just yourself and your sister were the only children?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. And a little sister---she was born after the war, in 1947. So, I haven't seen her.
Mr. JENNER. Your parents are still in Russia as far as you know?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. They are; yeah.
Mr. JENNER. Were either of your parents active politically in Russia?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Active politically?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; was your father an active member of the Communist Party, for example?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I think so.
Mr. JENNER. Were you?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No.
Mr. JENNER. Is your husband still in this country?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. You don't?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. We were divorced for, I think, 3 years ago--3 1/2 years ago. I don't know where he is.
Mr. JENNER. I take it for part of this time at least--was he an American?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No; he was from White Russia.
Mr. JENNER. White Russia?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You were married in Belgium, were you?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And he preceded you to this country?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did he settle here in the Dallas area?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; he settled for awhile. And--uh--he never settled down in same place. He always traveled all over United States to find a better place to live. But I like here, and I stay here.
Mr. JENNER. What was his business or occupation?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. His occupation?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. He was a draftsman.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Is he now an American citizen?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I heard yes.
Mr. JENNER. I see. And you certainly are?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Not yet.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, you're not yet?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No.
Mr. JENNER. What status are you?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Sir?
Mr. JENNER. What is your status? Have you applied?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I applied 5 years ago when I came to this country that I would like to be American citizen. I can read, I can speak, but I can't write. So that's why I have to go to school first.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, to write English?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes. To have examinations you have to learn writing English.
Mr. JENNER. I see. But you are doing that?

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Mrs. DYMITRUK. Oh, yes; I study at home.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. And the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, yes; great document!
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; I think so.
Mr. JENNER. Were any children born of your marriage?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No children.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know a lady by the name of Anna Meller?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Sometimes pronounced "Miller"?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Tell me your acquaintance with Anna Meller. How did it come about?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. When I came to United States----
Mr. JENNER. Wait a minute. What year was that?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I think it was 1960.
Mr. JENNER. All right. You came to the United States and you came to Dallas?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You joined you husband here?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you became acquainted with Anna Meller?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Not through him.
Mr. JENNER. All right
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Through George Bouhe.
Mr. JENNER. George Bouhe?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. I met him the other day. Monday, as a matter of--what is today? Yes, Monday. George Bouhe he's a resident here in Dallas, a man who takes a great interest in all Russian emigre people, and he tried to organize a little church, did he not?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, he helps everybody I know.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. He's a short, bald-headed man?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes. He's not just to help Russian people, he helps everybody--Germans, Belgians, everybody.
Mr. JENNER. He's a generous man?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. He just like to help. That's all----
Mr. JENNER. He's bouncy and vigorous. All right. I interrupted you. Go ahead.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That's okay.
Mr. JENNER. Your acquaintance with Anna Meller?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; I met her at George's house----
Mr. JENNER. You met her where?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. At George Bouhe's house.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. And, since then, once in while I see her in church or I go visit her at home.
Mr. JENNER. All right. What church is that?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. It's the Russian church.
Mr. JENNER. Russian Orthodox Church?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Russian Orthodox Church. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall the name of it? Saint somebody or other?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I don't know the name because I go to both churches. One is Father Dimitri's church on Newton Avenue. I went there and few times I went to George Bouhe---but I don't know the name. I don't know if it's his name or not. I don't know; really. That's his church and he just likes everybody to go there but I prefer to go to this one Father Dimitri's church.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. So, once in while, I see Anna Meller at a party somewhere or when I'm in Dallas, I visit with her and her husband.
Mr. JENNER. In their home?

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Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. In 1962, you were living in Dallas?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. 1962; yeah.
Mr. JENNER. You had an apartment of your own at that time?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And where was that?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. It was on McKinney Avenue.
Mr. JENNER. McKinney?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. McKinney Avenue. Yes. Palm Gardens Apartments.
Mr. JENNER. And was there an occasion when there was an interchange between you and Mrs. Meller with respect to the possibility of your befriending or harboring another lady--taking somebody into your home your apartment?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No.
Mr. JENNER. No?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No.
Mr. JENNER. Was there any conversation at any time between you and Mrs. Meller about the possibility of your taking a lady into your home temoprarily?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, I couldn't take in my home because I got just one little room. I couldn't take. But it was once a conversation--I remember it--that Marina Oswald, she was looking to live with somebody in a house, or not to be by herself, because she was separated from her husband.
Mr. JENNER. Separated?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes. It was some kind of conversation that I ought to help her, or something, but I didn't know her in that time.
Mr. JENNER. Had you heard of her at that time?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I heard about her, yes; but I haven't met her.
Mr. JENNER. From whom?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. It was from Anna Meller. Anna Meller and George Bouhe. Both of them.
Mr. JENNER. Told you about----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. About, yes. That she's separated from her husband and she are looking for--uh--to help--for somebody can help her to find a living or somewhere. But she was at that time somewhere living with somebody, but I don't know with whom.
Mr. JENNER. I see. Did George Bouhe or Mrs. Meller then tell you about this lady?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Oh, yes; she told me yes.
Mr. JENNER. What did she what did they tell you about her?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I visit her on Sunday once and--uh--she told me that Marina was in her apartment for a week.
Mr. JENNER. Had lived with Mrs. Meller a week?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. With Mrs. Meller; Yes. And that she went back to her husband and that she called, that was on Sunday, and she cried that her baby is very ill and the husband he won't go to the hospital.
Mr. JENNER. The huband would not take them to the hospital?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. The baby to the hospital or to see a doctor.
Mr. JENNER. Uh-huh.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. And she asked me----
Mr. JENNER. Now, Mrs. Meller asked you?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Mrs. Meller; yes. She asked me if I want to go and see her and take that baby to the hospital or to the doctor because I've got my own transportation. And I told her on Sunday, I don't want to go. So--and I thought about it on Monday and I think, "Well, I don't know. If something happened to that baby, then it's my fault. I better go." So, on Tuesday was my day off and so Anna Meller she give me the address and she says, "If you can go---if you go to her and see her, could you bring the books?" They borrowed a dictionary-- English dictionary--hers and George Bouhe's--dictionaries. I said, "Well, okay."
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. Mrs. Meller asked you that if you went to the Oswalds, would you please bring with you----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. English-language and Russian-language dictionaries----

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Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, they were English.
Mr. JENNER. English dictionaries that the Mellers had; that you would then bring them----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. To her.
Mr. JENNER. To Mrs. Oswald?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No. Those books were at Marina's house.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. There was two books. One, George gave it to her; and other one, Anna Meller gave it to her.
Mr. JENNER. And they were both English-language dictionaries?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; English-Russian.
Mr. JENNER. English-Russian?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes. So, she asked me to bring it back--those books.
Mr. JENNER. Uh-huh.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. So, it was on Tuesday early in the morning----
Mr. JENNER. Tuesday?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Tuesday.
Mr. JENNER. I thought you said Thursday?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No; Tuesday is my day off.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. And on Tuesday I went to Marina's house---I found her house---and----
Mr. JENNER. Was she at home?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. At first, I couldn't find her at all. I went, first, to see the landlady, and I talked to her for a minute maybe 5 or 10 minutes--and I ask her where she lives, in which apartment. There was so many apartments--some empty--and, you know, I just couldn't find her. So, she showed me where to go up to find her. So, I came there, I knocked on door and she came. And I asked her if she was Marina Oswald and she said, "Yes."
Mr. JENNER. Is that the first time you ever met Marina Oswald?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That's the first time. I think was the first time. The first I remember.
Mr. JENNER. Okay.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. She said, "well, yes?" And I said to her, "I hear that your baby is sick. Anna Meller told me that your baby's very sick and you need help. And maybe I can help you to bring that baby to the hospital." "Oh," she said, "my husband, he's against it and I'm in trouble with him. I don't know what to do." And I said, "Where is he?" "Well, he's working." I said, "Well, so long as he's working, we can go to the hospital." I said, "Do you have a doctor of your own?" She said, "Well, I don't know. It was some kind of doctor before, but I don't know." I said, "Well, okay. Let's go to the hospital."
Mr. JENNER. Were you speaking in Russian?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And, I take it, you have a fluent command of the Russian language--you speak Russian well?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Oh, yes.
Mr. JENNER. And do you have an impression as to Marina? Did she speak Russian well?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Go ahead.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. So---and she said that the baby had 103----
Mr. JENNER. Fever?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Fever. And I said--it was some kind of cold weather--- "You had better put some warm clothes---and in the car it's warm, so we go to the hospital so they see that baby." She said, "Well, all right."

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So, it was about 10 o'clock or 10:30----
Mr. JENNER. In the morning?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. In the morning. I went to the Parkland Hospital.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, we'll just hesitate a minute. Did you enter the apartment?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And tell us what you observed as to the conditions around the apartment. How she was dressed; whether you thought they might or did have funds, or whether they were poor; what did she look like? You know.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Uh--I think she was all right. And house was clean. And it was, I mean, it was nice apartment. I lived in much worse apartment when I came to United States--so----
Mr. JENNER. So, she was neat, the apartment was neat and clean----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And she was neat and clean?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And, I take it, you had, at that moment, a good impression of her?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And what sex was this baby--girl or boy?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. It was a girl.
Mr. JENNER. A little girl. About how old?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. (Gesturing with hands.) Baby couldn't walk. I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. Could not walk? All right. That's really what I was getting at. She was carrying the baby in her arms?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Could you recall a little more clearly what she said about her husband? That is, was she having difficulty with him or were they getting along well--or what was your impression in that respect?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, I haven't seen him at all--so, I couldn't say anything---
Mr. JENNER. I know, but from what she said, Mrs. Dymitruk?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Oh, that's what she said about her husband--that he's against the hospital and against the doctors because he can't afford to pay the bills.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. So, I said to her at the Parkland Hospital you don't have to pay anything or maybe something--I don't know. So, I took her to the hospital with her baby.
Mr. JENNER. You went to the Parkland Hospital here in Dallas?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you drove Marina and her child?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Okay.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. So, we come to the hospital emergency room, they checked the baby, fever 103, they give some little medicine for the temperature to go down, and they said, "I'm sorry, we can't help you; we don't have a children's doctor here."
Mr. JENNER. Do not have a children's doctor?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No; I was little bit surprised because they deliver babies over there every day so many and: they don't have a children's doctor.
Mr. JENNER. Yeah.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. And I said, "Well, what we can do right now? I don't know what to do with the baby now." "Well, if you can come in the evening."
Mr. JENNER. The doctor or the attendant said----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That was the nurse. And she said, "Well, in the evening, it will be a doctor for the children." I said, "Is it possible to find somebody else right now?" Because the baby couldn't breathe and I don't know--I don't have my own children but really I was scared to see baby.

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Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. And they said, "Well, we give the address to go to another children's hospital in Dallas." And that's what I did.
Mr. JENNER. You and Marina and the baby then drove to----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Do you remember where that was?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Sir, I don't remember. It was a little hospital---children's hospital. I think it was free. You don't have to pay anything.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, yes; it was a clinic-type of hospital?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Just for children.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. So, when I come there there were at least 40 children there waiting.
Mr. JENNER. 40?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I think so. There were so many children. And at first I asked the nurse to take care of the baby if it is possible right away.
Mr. JENNER. Because the baby has a fever?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; and she said, "Well, I'm sorry. I can't help it."
Mr. JENNER. Cannot?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. "I cannot--because they have so many children here and you have to wait your turn." I said, "Maybe those children-----"---I see around there---playing around---so, I say, "Maybe they don't have a fever high like this. Can't you take baby right away?" "Oh, no; you have to wait 3 or 4 hours"--or something like that. I said, "Well, I'm sorry. We have to go home." So, I brought her home. It was about 2 o'clock. And I said to her, "Well, if your husband comes home, you have to decide what to do. If you want it, I can take you to hospital this evening." She said, "Yes." So I came to see her around, maybe 6 o'clock--maybe 5 o'clock or something-- I don't remember. But when I came home to see her her husband wasn't home.
Mr. JENNER. Was not?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Was not. I said, "Now, Marina, I would like to take you to the hospital. Do you want to go?" She said, "Yes; but wait just a minute when my husband will be back." I said, "Okay." So he came home and first he was eating----
Mr. JENNER. Were you introduced to him?
Mr. DYMITRUK. Yes. She said, "That's my husband." And he spoke Russian to me.
Mr. JENNER. He did speak Russian?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; and I was really surprised--in short time, he spoke nicely.
Mr. JENNER. He spoke pretty good Russian?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes. So--and I asked him if he wanted to go to the hospital with the baby. And he said, "I don't know. I can't afford it. I can't pay." So they went to the living room and I was sitting in the kitchen, and they were fighting in the living room--what to do--to go or not to go.
Mr. JENNER. Was it a real argument?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. It was. Yes. I could hear from the kitchen that they argued.
Mr. JENNER. It was a heated argument?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, they were just--uh--I don't know what it was all about, but when they came out they told me that they wanted to go to the hospital.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. And from what you heard of this argument, he didn't want to go, she did?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. She want to go but he----

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Mr. JENNER. He did not want to go?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No; no. So then he decide that he want to go to the hospital and take his baby. I said, "All right." So, we went to the hospital and we found a doctor. And there were children waiting and we wait. So he took care of the baby. He--the doctor took a blood test and took a X-ray--a lung X-ray and, I don't know, all kind of tests, right away. So, on the way back--he got some kind of papers, I think it was two copies or three copies of papers----
Mr. JENNER. From the hospital?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. From the doctor to go to the service desk.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. So, at the service desk--he was standing here [indicating], I was behind him, and Marina was behind me with the baby. So---and the service desk asked question--the address and if he's working, and he said "No."
Mr. JENNER. Not working?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No. Then she said, "Do you have unemployment--do you get some unemployment money?" He said, "No." And she said, "Well, how do you live then?" He said, "Well, friends helping me." And Marina--she was behind me and she says, "What a liar!" And they argue again.
Mr. JENNER. They argued--between the two of them?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, in Russian language.
Mr. JENNER. Did he overhear her make the remark to you that you've just told us?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That's what she told. That's what she told.
Mr. JENNER. Did he hear her say that--is what I'm----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes--because then they were in argument.
Mr. JENNER. Then, they got in an argument?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And what was the argument about?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, about the that he is not working--because he was lying.
Mr. JENNER. I see. Did he say why he lied?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No; no. He didn't say anything. So, that piece of paper--he received some kind of paper----
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. To turn around and to pay a cashier, or something, I think so--but he put it in his pocket.
Mr. JENNER. He put the paper in his pocket?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. In his pocket. And so we came out and I brought them home and I didn't come into the house.
Mr. JENNER. They just got out of the car and went in?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes. They didn't say anything---thank you or what--- anything.
Mr. JENNER. To you?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Nothing.
Mr. JENNER. They just got out?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yeah. You know, one thing, he said, "I don't want to pay any penny. It's suppose to be free. Doctors and everything in Russia is free. It's suppose to be free here, too." I didn't like that at all. I was disgusted.
Mr. JENNER. You were disgusted----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. With him?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I was disgusted with him [laughing]----
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall that the burden of his argument, the point of his argument was that these things were free in Russia----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That's right.

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Mr. JENNER. And they should be free in the United States?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And he shouldn't be required to pay? If they were free, he shouldn't be paying?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; that's what he figures.
Mr. JENNER. When, if ever, did you next see either Marina or Lee Oswald?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I have seen her. It was in 1963, summertime---I think was in July or June, or something like that. I saw her in Irving. I worked in Irving as manager of a French bakery in the Wyatt's Store--located in Wyatt's Store there.
Mr. JENNER. That's a supermarket?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes. And I managed the bakery. So, I saw her shopping----
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. I assume you speak French, too, do you?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Very little.
Mr. JENNER. Very little?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes. Flemish and German.
Mr. JENNER. Flemish and German and Russian--and English?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. And English.
Mr. JENNER. You do very well with English.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Thank you. And I saw her with little baby and her dressed maternity.
Mr. JENNER. So she had the same child she had the year before?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And she was pregnant with another child?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, she was dressed like she was. And I just saw her from far--and I said, "Marina?" "Oh!" she says, "How are you?" I said, "Okay."
Mr. JENNER. Did she recognize you?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Oh, yes. And she said, "Do you see anything on me?" I said, "Well, I don't know." She said, "Well, I expect another baby." I said, "Well," I said, "that's something." I said, "How is your husband doing?" "Oh, he's in New Orleans. And I'm going to New Orleans, too." And there was another lady with her.
Mr. JENNER. There was another lady? Would you describe the other lady, please?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, she was tall, black hair. She spoke Russian.
Mr. JENNER. What was her command of Russian?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Very--not too bad. But I was surprised at her. Because I thought she was English first--her type of face.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. And she said, "Well, no. I'm American--and I went to the university and studied Russian--and I practice now with Marina." I said, "Why Russian?" I said, "Well, in United States, if you need another language, you study Spanish or French or German. Why Russian?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. "Oh," she said, "I don't know, but I like very much the Russian language. And I thought [gesturing with hands out, palms up]--I don't know. And they sit down on the table and I give them some coffee. And she say that the lady was with her, she will drive her to New Orleans.
Mr. JENNER. The lady who was accompanying Marina was going to drive Marina to New Orleans?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Right.
Mr. JENNER. What time of the year was this?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Years and dates, I'm just lost.
Mr. JENNER. Well, was it in the spring?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No, no, no. It was in summertime.

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Mr. JENNER. It was in the summertime?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. In summertime. Just before we close up the store. I think was in July, or maybe June. I'm not sure.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That's the last time I saw her.
Mr. JENNER. That's the last time you saw Marina?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yeah.
Mr. JENNER. And is that the last time you had even any indirect contact-- people speaking of her--that is, prior to November 22---did you hear about her in between?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No.
Mr. JENNER. Not at all?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No.
Mr. JENNER. When you were assisting them with their child and went to their apartment, that apartment was here in Dallas, was it?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; I think it was in Oak Cliff.
Mr. JENNER. In Oak Cliff?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I think was in Oak Cliff.
Mr. JENNER. In your driving to the clinic that evening with Lee Oswald and Marina and the baby and your returning home that night, was there any discussion at any time, other than you have already indicated, of his views with respect to Russia?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. It was Just only about the hospitalization.
Mr. JENNER. Only the hospitalization?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir; that's right.
Mr. JENNER. Did you learn, during the course of those visits with Marina and the visit to the hospital with both of them, as to whether he had been in Russia?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I knew; yes.
Mr. JENNER. You knew that before---well, I'll ask you this: How did you know he had been to Russia?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I knew from George Bouhe.
Mr. JENNER. From George Bouhe?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; he told me about it--uh--one person who went to Russia and then he come back with Russian wife and a baby--back to United States. "Well," I say, "that's one thing--that he learned something. To go to Russia and he didn't like it and then he come back. He was just lucky that he did come back to United States."
Mr. JENNER. He was fortunate that he could come back?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. In your talks with Marina that morning, when you were taking her to the hospital and you brought her back, you were with her a good many hours?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Oh--let me see. It was maybe till 2 o'clock--2:30 maybe.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say anything about the circumstances of her meeting Oswald in Russia? Did she tell you anything about her life or their lives in Russia and their life here in the United States? Did you girls have some smalltalk?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. It was just about life in United States; not in Russia.
Mr. JENNER. Not in Russia?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No. She told me that her husband want to go back to Russia.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, she did?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. "And I don't want to go," she say.
Mr. JENNER. Fine. Tell me about that. Was it, to the best of your recollection, that her husband wanted to go back to Russia, including himself and her?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Or was it that he wanted her to go back to Russia and he was going to stay here?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No; he wanted to go with her.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.

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Mrs. DYMITRUK. And she said, "He can go if he want to, but I don't go--- because I like here and I don't go."
Mr. JENNER. I see. But she did make a point of telling you about that?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now, Can you recall anything else that occurred during this day when you were with them for a good many hours?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No; with her.
Mr. JENNER. Yes--with her.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, I asked her if she like United States. She says, "United States, I do--but not everything" I said, "What you mean--not everything?" "Well, just the same problem--the hospitalization and the doctors." I said to her that in United States we have, when you work with a company, you have insurance. You pay just a little every month and then if you go to the hospital, the insurance company will pay.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That's how I explain to her. "Well, in Russia, when a baby is born in Russia--my baby was born in Russia, and they took care and when I come home from the hospital there was a nurse for 8 days in my room who took care of the baby--and why is it not in United States like this?" I said to her, "Well, you just can't compare two countries--Russia and United States." I said, "I am longer here and I can explain so you will understand."
Mr. JENNER. And did you explain to her?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I explained about this hospitalization what we have here.
Mr. JENNER. Uh-huh.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. "Well," she said, "it's still too expensive. If you have to go doctor, you pay the visit." I said, "You can go to the hospital--to the Parkland Hospital and it cost you nothing because they don't charge you anything."
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. "If you have your own doctor, for example, if you go to doctor, then you pay $10 or $5 or something like that." I said, "Why, that's nothing." "Well, I can't afford it." I said, "Well, that's why I'm taking you to hospital---to Parkland Hospital---to see the doctor and you don't have to pay anything." That was the only--what she complained about.
Mr. JENNER. But otherwise she thought well of the United States?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. She liked it.
Mr. JENNER. She wanted to stay?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. She want to stay; yes.
Mr. JENNER. In any event, she did not want to go back to Russia?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. No.
Mr. JENNER. But she told you that her husband did want to return to Russia?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. With her?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Do you remember specifically now?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes; I remember. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You have a firm recollection that it was that he wanted to go back with her?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. With her. And she said, "I don't want to go. If he want to go, he can go by himself. I stay here."
Mr. JENNER. Now, did she say anything, during the course of this time you were with her, about her husband's attitude toward the United States?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. She told me that he was unhappy and that he was very disappointed; that he would lose jobs just because that he was in Russia and the people find out that he was in Russia, so he's on the street.
Mr. JENNER. Uh-huh.

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Mrs. DYMITRUK. And that's why he was always so upset.
Mr. JENNER. I see. All right. Now, Mrs. Dymitruk, does anything occur to you now to which you would like to call my attention and, through me, the Commission, that you think for any possible reason might be helpful to us in this important investigation?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, in my opinion, naturally, everyone American who goes from United States to Russia, let them there. Don't bring them back. That's the only thing that I can say. It's no reason to leave United States and change your nationality or something. Because I have experience myself. I lived in Russia for 15 years and, in my childhood, I knew too much about the life in Russia. And I can't see any reason that American want to go to Russia and to accept Russian life--I mean the Communists. I can't see that.
Mr. JENNER. You have a personal aversion to communism?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And it's your viewpoint that if any American goes to Russia with the intention of living there that we ought to leave them there?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And not encourage him to return to the United States?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Not encourage---or if he ask to come back, just let him stay there.
Mr. JENNER. Uh-huh. All right. Anything else?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Let's see Uh---one thing that I'm just always wonder about Marina and her husband--that she knew--if she knew that her husband tried to kill General Walker. I think she was responsible, in that ease, to tell the Government or somebody in Government that her husband tried to do this.
Mr. JENNER. It's your viewpoint about----
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir; that's right.
Mr. JENNER. That she should have disclosed that?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir. Husband or no husband, I would feel that I should.
Mr. JENNER. Your feeling is that regardless of whether it was a husband, or whomever it might have been.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Right.
Mr. JENNER. That was involved in such an incident, that it should have been disclosed to the police or the Government?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Anything else?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Well, you ask questions. I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. I can't think of anything at the moment. Now, we've had occasional discussions off the record when the reporter hasn't been transcribing. Is there anything that occurred during the course of any off-the-record discussion that I haven't brought out in questioning you that you think is pertinent here?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Nothing.
Mr. JENNER. Everything that's pertinent I have questioned you about?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. As far as you know?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, Mrs. Dymitruk, this questioning will be transcribed and this fine young lady will have it some time next week. You may read it if you desire, or not--as you see fit. And some people like to read it over and see if they're any corrections they would like to make. That's optional. You may or may not as you see fit. And you have a right to do this if you want. You also may waive it.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I think that's all right.
Mr. JENNER. You would prefer to waive it?
Mrs. DYMITRUK. I think that's all right. What I say is truth.
Mr. JENNER. Well, all right. Thank you very much. We appreciate your coming voluntarily. It's certainly an inconvenience, I know, but you've been very helpful.
Mrs. DYMITRUK. Thank you.

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