TESTIMONY OF ALICE REAVES NICHOLS

The testimony of Mrs. Alice Reaves Nichols was taken at 2:15 p.m., on April 14, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Burt W. Griffin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me state for the record that Mrs. Alice Reaves Nichols is present, and before we began anything, she walked into the room and she asked me if it would be possible to withhold her name from the press. I told her I would check. I have talked with Mr. Hubert of our office, to find out what the policy has been in the past, and he assured me that in the past we have, on the request of witnesses, not released the name to the press. I stated previously that all we have ever released is the name. We have never discussed and will not discuss with the press any testimony. However, we can't give you any assurance that they won't find out you were here. For example, there are newspaper reporters all over this building, and I don't recognize them and perhaps you will, and perhaps they might recognize you or try to find out, if they don't recognize you, who you are. Unfortunately, anything they can learn about what goes on is something that they want to print, so we can't assure you that the name won't go out, but we can assure you it won't get out from anything we do. I am sorry we can't give you any more protection than that.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I appreciate that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me introduce myself. I am Burt Griffin, and I am a special consultant to the General Counsel's staff of the President's Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy.
This Commission has been set up under a couple of governmental acts, one of which is an Executive order issued by President Johnson on November 30, 1963, and another one from the joint resolution of Congress. The effect of both of these acts has been to establish a Commission with a staff which has power to subpena witnesses and take testimony and conduct an investigation and prescribe various rules and procedures, and we are operating under these rules of procedure.
I might explain that under the rules of the Commission I have been specifically designated to come here and talk to you and take your deposition. Now the purpose of this deposition is to inquire into all of the facts and evaluate the facts and report back to President Johnson on the facts that have to do with the death of President Kennedy and the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald. In your particular case, Mrs. Nichols, you have known Jack Ruby for many years, and you have been good enough to tell the FBI at some length what you knew about him. We want now to see if there is any more that can be added by this type of questioning. But we are also interested, I might add, in anything you might know that might have any significance to the whole investigation we are conducting.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I believe you got a letter from the Commission asking you to appear?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I did. I had a telephone call first.
Mr. GRIFFIN. From Mr. Sorrels of the Secret Service?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; it wasn't Mr. Sorrels. I believe the man said his name was Howell.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Howlett?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you receive your letter?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I received a letter last Friday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I might also say, I don't want to scare you by saying this, because we say it to everybody, that you are entitled under the rules of the Commission to appear here with an attorney if you so desire, and it is not unusual that people do that. But I see that you don't have an attorney here, and I take it that you don't desire one.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I didn't think it was necessary.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Most people do feel that way. It is an expense, for one thing.

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Mrs. NICHOLS. I know several attorneys here, but I didn't think it was necessary.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, I don't think anything will come up in the course of your deposition that should make you feel you want an attorney. But I always want to make clear that at any time throughout your deposition you are free to stop the thing.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. We try to be pretty nice, and I don't think we will have too many difficulties. Let me ask you then if you have any questions about the deposition that is to be taken, before I ask you to raise your hand and be sworn? Anything that you think you would want to know?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I don't know of anything.
Mrs. GRIFFIN. All right, would you raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you give the court reporter your full name.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Alice Reaves Nichols.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that Mrs. Nichols?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was your maiden name?
Mrs. NICHOLS. My maiden name was Small; Alice Reaves Small.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do you live right now?
Mrs. NICHOLS. 8707 Redondo.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that in Dallas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I hate to ask embarrassing questions of women, but could you tell us when you were born?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes. February the 1st, 1915.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you lived in Dallas all your life?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I lived away from Dallas. I was born and raised here, but I lived away about 7 years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When was that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. From 1937 to about 1944.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you employed?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I am.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where are you employed?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Southland Life Insurance Co.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What do you do there?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I am a secretary.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you work for anyone in particular?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I am secretary to the vice president and treasurer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is his name?
Mrs. NICHOLS. John E. Mangrum.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now I want to ask you if you will hand me those two documents that you have there?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to mark them and ask you some questions in connections with them. I want to hand you what I have marked as "Dallas, Tex., April 14, 1964, Alice R. Nichols' Exhibit 5355." This document consists of a number of pages starting with the No. 283, at the bottom, going through page 291.
It purports to be a copy of a report of an interview that you had with two FBI Agents, Mr. Albert Sayres and Mr. Paul Scott on November 25, 1963. I am going to hand it to you and ask you if you had a chance to read that over before the deposition started?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I have.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now is there anything in there that you feel is not accurate, an accurate report of what you told the FBI on that day? I am not referring to whether or not you, after thinking about it, that you make some changes, but whether you noticed anything in there that does not accurately reflect what you said at that time, and if so, whether you want to make some changes in it?

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Mrs. NICHOLS. There are a few things in here that I notice that are not exactly right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right, let me ask you if you would refer to the page on which the mistaken material appears, and if you would read the material that is mistaken and then we will talk about it.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I may have said it as it is here, but I know that I said that I didn't think that Joe Bonds had an interest in the Vegas Club. But after thinking it over, I believe that he had for a short time an interest with Jack Ruby. But I believe that at this time that I talked with the FBI men, I had forgotten about that. But since thinking it over----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you pick out of there what page that appears on?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Let me put on my glasses. [Looks through document.]
Mr. GRIFFIN. Maybe I can find it for you.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I read it in there. It is in there some place.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This would be on page 284. Let me read the language to you, and you can tell me if that is what you had reference to.
The paragraph at the top of the page which reads: "During the time she was associated with Jack Ruby, Ruby was friendly with one Joe Bond when he operated the club on West Commerce Street in Dallas, Texas. She did not believe that Ruby and Bond were ever associated in any business."
Mrs. NICHOLS. That is it. Yes; that's right, I believe for a short time that Joe Bond had an interest in the Vegas Club with Jack Ruby.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now has something happened since this interview, the original interview that you had with the FBI that made you remember that or think that Joe did have some business interest in the Vegas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I have just thought over the questions that they asked me, and I recall that I believe that he did. I have been thinking it over.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What makes you think that he did have?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I think that Jack Ruby told me himself that Joe Bond had an interest.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What I am trying to get at here is, is there anything in particular that made you remember this?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; nothing in particular.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there anything else in this interview of November 25, that you think ought to be changed or corrected?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I don't believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now let me hand you what is marked for the purpose of identification as Dallas, Tex., April 14, 1964, Alice R. Nichols' Exhibit 5356. This document consists of two pages, and it purports to be a copy of an interview that you had with another FBI Agent, Mr. Albert Sayres. I guess you talked with Sayers on the 25th, also, but this interview was on January 18, 1964. Have you had a chance to read that over?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes, I have.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are there any additions or corrections you would make in that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; that is correct.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now I want to go back, and I am going to ask you some questions that are, some of which are biographical and some have to do with Jack Ruby, and some helter-skelter. When did your husband die?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I was divorced in 1947, but he didn't die until 1961.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he do for a living?
Mrs. NICHOLS. While we were married, he was with Commercial Standard Insurance Co.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that here, in Dallas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he do after your divorce?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I didn't talk to him very often. He went into the insurance adjusting business, his own business for a while. Then I understand at the time of his death he was in the jewelry business.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There is a Nichols' Garage here in town. Is that any relationship to your husband?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; it is not.

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Mr. GRIFFIN. I believe also that the building that Jack had the Carousel Club in is owned by the Nichols' family or by the Nichols' estate.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; I have heard that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that any relationship to your husband?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; there is no relationship.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to meet Jack Ruby?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I first saw him in a grocery store.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. It was close to his Silver Spur nightclub, there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. South Ervay Street?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes. I was in a grocery store.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you living in that general area?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No. My mother lived close by.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you never met him before?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack come up and talk to you?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he didn't. I had my daughter with me, and later on when I was waiting for the bus to go home, he saw me standing on the corner and he came over and introduced himself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About when was that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. That was the early part of 1949. I don't know the exact date.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I think in your earlier interview with Agent Sayres on the 25th, you indicated that you thought you had met him in about 1948. Have you had a chance to think since then so that your feeling now is that it was 1949?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't remember. I started going with him the latter part of 1949, and I don't remember the exact date. It was several months after I first saw him before I ever went with him. I would say it was 1948, winter of 1948 and 1949, somewhere in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, is there anything by which you place it? You mean that would have been late 1948, or early 1949?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't remember the month.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Any particular way that you place it at that period? Anything in your life that is significant that would place it in late 1948?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I can't remember whether the weather was cold or what I had on; whether I was wearing a coat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I mean the particular year. Anything happen during the year 1948 that sticks out in your mind so that you could date your meeting Ruby in relationship to that event?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I can't remember exactly when I first met him, first saw him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How old is your daughter?
Mrs. NICHOLS. My daughter is 25.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So if it were 1948, she would have been about 9 years old?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; that's right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you started to date Jack, how often did you see Jack?
Mrs. NICHOLS. It's been so long ago. I think at first I probably saw him about once a week, and then later on in the year or so, I would say about twice a week, was about the most I ever saw him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Jack the kind of man that had any family interests or seemed to show any interest in settling down?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, in settling down?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; in getting married and raising a family and leading a conventional kind of married life?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He talked about it some for a period of time. Not all the time I was going with him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How would you describe Jack in terms of his impressions and what he would look forward to and the kind of things he liked?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I think that Jack had a lot of drive. He was ambitious.

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He was always looking for some way to make money, some extra way to make money.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there anything in particular that attracted you to Jack? Made Jack attractive to you? Any particular quality about him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He was very nice to me. He always treated me with respect.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack, was he the kind of person that would unburden himself to you with his personal problems and background?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well he talked to me about some of his problems. I don't know that he talked to me about all of them, but he did discuss some of his problems with me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of problems did he seem to have?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, his business problems. When he lost the Bob Wills Ranch House, he discussed that with me. He was very upset about that. He lost a lot of money in that deal. He had to go back to Chicago at that time, and he discussed his business deals with me when he bought the Vegas Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He didn't seem to have any particular anxieties that he would discuss with you? No personal problems; family problems?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, when his two brothers split up their partnership in Chicago, he talked about that some to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he tell you about that particular problem?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He went back to Chicago that time to try to help settle their differences.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know if this was Earl and Sam?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What seemed to be the differences between the two?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I don't know whether it was--well, I guess it was just a financial, trying to work out. Sam sold out to Earl, and I think it was just trying to work out a financial settlement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever indicate to you why Sam sold out to Earl? Why Sam left the business?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I thought it was just because they weren't getting along together, the two brothers.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever tell you why they weren't getting along?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You saw Jack then on a once-a-week or twice-a-week basis until about what, 1956 or 1957?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; and then after that I only saw him about once a week. I saw him about once a week until the latter part of 1959, about the latter part of November 1959.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you date that in 1959? What makes your memory remember it as the latter part of 1959 as opposed to 1958 or 1960?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, the reason why I remember that is, I think it was Christmastime, and we weren't going together at Christmastime. I remember thinking that I wouldn't buy him a Christmas present.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he own the Carousel Club at that time?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he hadn't taken over the Carousel Club at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever talk to you about any trips he took?
Mrs. NICHOLS. The only trips that I knew he took were a few trips to Chicago, and I knew that he went to Havana one time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many times did he go to Havana?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Only once.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember when that was?
Mrs. NICHOLS. That was in 1959. It was September of 1959.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What makes you----
Mrs. NICHOLS. The first part of September.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What makes you remember it as that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, it seemed to me like it was around Labor Day, as I recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall how long Jack stayed in Havana?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Not exactly; but I would say he was there from a week to 10 days.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you why he went to Havana?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I thought it was a pleasure trip.

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Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see him off at the airport?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you who he was going to visit in Havana?
Mrs. NICHOLS. The only person he told me he was going to see in Havana was a man by the name of McWillie. I don't know if Mr. Mac was his first name or whether McWillie was his last name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you ever met McWillie?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I had.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When had you met him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I had seen him a few times. Jack had introduced me to him. I had seen him in the Vegas Club a few times.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack indicate to you what McWillie was doing in Havana?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He was managing the Tropicana Night Club, so I understood.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now is this something that you actually remember yourself, or something you know from having read about these things in the newspaper?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I remember him telling me that he was at the Tropicana.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack indicate whether he had any business interests with McWilly?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He didn't indicate that he had any business interests.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever talk to you at any other time about Cuba or any interests he might have in Cuba?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you feel that Jack talked to you about all of his enterprises; business activities?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I knew of nothing that he didn't discuss with me. I don't know of any activities that he didn't discuss.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, did you feel Jack was the kind of person who might do things that he wouldn't discuss with people?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Discuss with people?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; with other people who weren't involved in that particular activity?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know. He always talked freely to me, I thought. I never did feel that he--Jack was a big talker. He talks a lot; quite an extrovert.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to break up with Jack?
Mrs. NICHOLS. It was a gradual thing. We had no quarrel. We just quit. He quit calling me. We just quit going together.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now you indicated that Jack returned to Chicago from time to time?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When was that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. That was about August 1952.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you place it in August?
Mrs. NICHOLS. As I recall, he lost Bob Wills Ranch House about April or May 1952, and he stayed here several months, and it was around August, I believe, when he returned to Chicago. And he stayed about 6 weeks.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you say he lost it, did he go into bankruptcy? Go through some court proceedings or just sell it to somebody at a loss?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know whether he took bankruptcy or not. I don't remember. I don't think he got anything. I don't believe he sold it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he forced out of it by anybody?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I was under the impression that he just didn't have the money to continue operating. He just had to leave it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of place was this Ranch House?
Mrs. NICHOLS. It was a western type.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Restaurant?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; nightclub.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Striptease shows?
Mrs. NICHOLS No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did Jack first go into the striptease business?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I was not going with Jack when he got into the striptease business.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was the Silver Spur a strip joint?

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Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about the Vegas Club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I believe he did for a time have a strip, a few girls doing the strip at the Silver Spur, but that was a very short time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was this while you were dating him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; but not--that was just for a few months. Maybe not even that long.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did he happen to start to employ them there?
Mrs. NICHOLS. How did he what?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why did he start to employ them there?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, his business was bad and he was just trying to find some way to build his business up.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have entertainment at the Ranch House, Bob Wills Ranch House?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Have floor shows?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't believe he ever had a floor show. I never did see a floor show there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have a band?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He had a band.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And he sold liquor?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; well, they sold beer and set-ups.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was that located?
Mrs. NICHOLS. That was on Corinth and Industrial.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did he operate that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I can't remember just when he started that. It wasn't but a few months. Probably, I would say about 6 months.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was the Silver Spur in operation when the Ranch House was going?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, when he sold the Ranch House, what did he do with the Silver Spur?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He continued to operate both of them. Wait, I beg your pardon. When he sold which one?
Mr. GRIFFIN. The Ranch House?
Mrs. NICHOLS. When he sold the Ranch House?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then what happened to the Silver Spur?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He still had the Silver Spur when he sold the Ranch House, but he sold the Silver Spur.
Mr. GRIFFIN. After he sold the Ranch House?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. To whom did he sell the Silver Spur?
Mrs. NICHOLS. A man by the name of Martin Gimbel or Gimpel.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long after he sold the Ranch House did he sell the Silver Spur?
Mrs. NICHOLS. It was very soon. I would say within--doesn't seem to me like it--seems like it was about a month after he sold the Ranch House.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know--had you met Martin Gimpel?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long had you known Martin Gimpel before he bought the Silver Spur?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I met Martin Gimpel soon after I met Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Martin living in Dallas at that time?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; he was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did Martin continue to live in Dallas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't recall how long. I don't recall how long he lived in Dallas. Several years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Martin married?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Not that I know of. I really don't know whether he was married.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of man was Mr. Gimpel?

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Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I didn't know him too well. I talked to him a few times, but he seemed very nice to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. DO you know how he earned his living before he bought the Silver Spur?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I know that before, he had punchboards for a while, before it became illegal in Texas, and that is the only business that I know of that he had. I was under the impression that he had a little money, that he had saved a little money.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever sell punchboards in Texas?
Mrs. NICHOLS: Not that I know of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now I think you indicated to the FBI that Gimpel is dead?
Mrs. NICHOLS. That is what I heard.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you hear that he died?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't remember. Jack Ruby called me and told me that he had died, but I don't know how long ago that was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he die here in Dallas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No. I believe he said he died in Oklahoma.
Mr. GRIFFIN. As you have had a chance to sit here, Mrs. Nichols, do you recall any better as to when it was that Gimpel died?
Mrs. NICHOLS. It is since I started going with Jack Ruby, and it was several years ago.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you still going with Jack Ruby at the time he died?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I was not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. While you were dating Jack Ruby, how often did Jack see Mr. Gimpel?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he was usually, he helped Jack around the nightclub, the Silver Spur and the Vegas Club, and I used to see him when we would go in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What sort of help would he give?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he just would sort of manage it, see that everything was going all right. I think I had seen him use the cash register. Just anything that was needed to be done around there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, did Jack pay him for what he did?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I believe you mentioned in your interview with the FBI that Jack was friendly with a man named Rocky Robinson. Do you remember that name?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I never did see Rocky Robinson but about twice, and then it was when we would be some place and he would be; we would run into him. I never did see him with Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I think you indicated to the Bureau that you thought that Jack sold the Silver Spur to Rocky Robinson?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now you have also testified that you thought he sold the Silver Spur to Martin Gimpel?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, now, he sold the Silver Spur to Martin Gimpel first, right after he sold or right after he lost the Bob Wills Ranch House. He sold the Silver Spur to Martin Gimpel, and he went back to Chicago and stayed 6 weeks, and then he came back and took over the Silver Spur again from Martin Gimpel, and then it was later on he sold the club to Rocky Robinson.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Why did Jack come back from Chicago?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he told me that he liked Dallas. He wanted to stay here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, I presume when he left, did he intend to stay in Chicago permanently?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I think that he did plan to stay in Chicago permanently when he left.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What happened in Chicago that made him change his mind after he had been there for 6 weeks?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I thought it was because Martin Gimpel didn't want to run the Silver Spur and Jack had a chance to buy it back, and he came back.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What makes you think that Jack actually sold the Silver Spur to Martin Gimpel?

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Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he told me that he did. I don't know what the consideration was. He didn't tell he how much.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is Rocky Robinson still in town?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had Rocky been a friend of Jack's before he sold the Silver Spur to Mr. Robinson?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Not that I know of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he become a friend of Jack's after Jack sold the Silver Spur to Rocky Robinson?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Not that I know of. I never did see Rocky Robinson but on about two occasions.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now I believe you told the FBI that you had met Jack's father?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you meet Mr. Rubinstein?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Where?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Jack picked me up after I left the office and took me by to meet his father one evening. That was the only time I ever saw his father.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did the father happen to be in Dallas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he and one of Jack's sisters were visiting Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When Jack sold the Silver Spur, did he also at the time he sold the Silver Spur to Rocky Robinson, own the Vegas Club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In late 1958 and on up to the time you stopped seeing him in 1959 or 1960, did Jack own the Vegas Club?
Did Jack own any club in addition to the Vegas Club during this 1-year period prior to the time you stopped seeing Jack? Did he operate any clubs besides the Vegas Club in that year?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In that year before you stopped seeing him, did Jack ever discuss selling the Vegas Club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't remember him ever discussing selling the Vegas Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was it your understanding that Jack was making a profit off the Vegas Club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I suppose during the time that you were dating Jack, you met most of his friends?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Jack introduced me to a lot of people while I was going with him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you meet a man by the name of Dewey Groom?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; I knew him slightly. I met him. He was a bandleader at Jack's Silver Spur for a while.
Mr. GRIFFIN. After Jack closed the Silver Spur, did Jack continue to see him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I never did see him after that. I don't know whether Jack did or not. Jack did see most of the nightclubs; he went around to most of the clubs and he probably did see Dewey Groom.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you know Ralph Paul?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. To your knowledge, when did Jack first become friendly with Ralph Paul?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I don't remember. Let's see; I don't remember whether--I just can't remember exactly when I first knew Ralph Paul.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he friendly with Ralph Paul when you first started dating Jack?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I believe I went with him for several years before I ever heard of Ralph Paul or met him. I just don't remember when I met Ralph Paul. I was trying to think whether I remembered him before Jack went back to Chicago. I believe I met him before he went back to Chicago in 1952.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have any business connections with Jack at that time?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Jack had mentioned that Ralph Paul had loaned him money.

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Mr. GRIFFIN. When was it, as you understand it, that Ralph first loaned Jack money?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't remember exactly.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Mr. Paul ever have an interest in the Vegas Club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; he had mentioned Gordon McLendon to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. While you were dating Jack, how often did Jack contact Mr. Paul?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I don't know how often he contacted him. I would see him around the club quite frequently.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you say that Mr. Paul, during the period you were dating Jack, was one of the more frequent visitors to the Vegas Club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Other than the lending of money by Paul to Jack, do you know of any other business relationship that Ralph Paul and Jack Ruby had with each other?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. While you were dating Jack, did you know George Senator?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I never did know him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know if Jack Ruby was a friend of Gordon McLendon?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; he mentioned Gordon McLendon to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first hear Jack mention Gordon McLendon?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't remember. I would say several years before we quit going together, before 1959, maybe 3 or 4 years. I can't remember when he first mentioned him to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did Jack indicate to you about his acquaintanceship with Mr. McLendon?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I think that he mentioned that Gordon McLendon had given him some advertising time on his radio station.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you understand it was free advertising time?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He didn't say whether it was. I don't recall him saying whether he paid for it or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he know McLendon any way other than a business way?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know whether he went out with him socially or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Mr. McLendon ever visit the Vegas Club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I never did see him in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now did Jack ever mention the name of a man Stanley Kaufman?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack know Mr. Kaufman when you began dating him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't believe he did. I never did hear him mention him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the nature of Jack's acquaintanceship with Mr. Kaufman?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he was Jack's lawyer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Jack a social friend of his?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know. Well, I don't know whether he ever went to his home or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Mr. Kaufman visit the Vegas Club from time to time?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't remember ever seeing him in the Vegas Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Tom Howard ? Did Jack ever mention Tom Howard as an acquaintance?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He had mentioned Tom Howard, but I had never seen--as far as I know, they were not friends. I never did see them together.
I never did see Tom Howard in the club. But I have worked for Tom Howard when I first started working for attorneys, and I knew that I had known Tom Howard because I worked for him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you work for Mr. Howard?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Right after I got my divorce in 1947, for a short time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then before you went to work for your present employer?
Mrs. NICHOLS. That's right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You have been employed continuously with your present employer?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Since; yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you work for Mr. Howard?

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Mrs. NICHOLS. About 6 months.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever mention Ed Pullman?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Who?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Ed Pullman?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't remember that name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever mention the name of Frank Fisher?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever mention the name of Alex Gruber?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Lawrence Meyers?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Mike Shore?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Buddy Heard?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, during the time that you were dating Jack, other than the band that he would hire for his club, did Jack have business contacts with the entertainment world?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Business contacts?
Mr. GRIFFIN. With the entertainment world?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know whether I understand. You mean personal, individual, or bands ?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; was it a regular practice of his to hire entertainers other than the band to play at the Vegas Club? Singers and comedians or dancers?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he didn't hire any. He had a little colored boy one time who used to put on a floor show out at the Vegas Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that Little Daddy Nelson?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that the only entertainer that you knew of that Jack was connected with while you knew him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now I believe you indicated to the FBI that Mr. Ruby was very attached to his mother.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he was devoted to his mother. He told me how--he had remarked how much her death had hurt him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you able to tell whether he was more or less devoted to his mother than to his father?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No. He seemed to be devoted to his father, too. He seemed to be quite interested in his father's welfare.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever mention to you in connection with his mother that his mother had been a source of many problems to the family?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he had mentioned that she had been in an institution; that she had a mental breakdown.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was Jack's attitude about that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He didn't say much about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have any hostility toward her on account of it?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever tell you how he happened to change his name from Rubenstein to Ruby?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No. He had already changed his name when I first knew him, and he never did tell me how he happened to do it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know that Jack had been associated with his brother Earl and his brother Sam in a business in Chicago?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He told me that he had.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever tell you how he happened to leave that business and come to Dallas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He told me that he came down here because his sister had a nightclub here and she was having difficulty because business was not going. He came down here to see if he couldn't help her with the nightclub business.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever indicate anything about his relationship with Sam and Earl in Earl Products?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He was a partner, I understood, in that.

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Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever indicate that he was dissatisfied in any way with that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he talk to you about how close he was or friendly he was with his brothers?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I got the impression that he was close to his brothers, his whole family. He seemed to be close to the whole family.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What gave you that impression?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he was very upset when his brothers Earl and Sam broke up their partnership, and he went up there to try to help settle their differences, and he just--I always got the impression that he was close to his family.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now you mentioned a man by the name of Ned Weisbrod.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. As a person whom you thought was friendly with Jack, close to him in one way or another. When did you first meet Mr. Weisbrod?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I believe that I met him soon after I met Jack. I would say probably in 1950.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did they continue, Weisbrod, to be friendly with Jack?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I had not seen him in--when I first knew Jack, he had the Silver Spur, and I used to see Ned in there.
And after he took over the Vegas, I used to see him out there until about--I think it was about the last 2 or 3 years I had not seen Ned in there. And the same thing with this Sam; that they used to be together a lot.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Sam Lassen?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes. I had not seen either one of them in the Vegas Club for, I would say, 2 years anyway before 1959, when we stopped going together.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever indicate why they stopped coming around?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there any sort of quarrel that Jack had with them?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Not that I know of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack seem to have any business relationship with Weisbrod and Lassen?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were Weisbrod and Lassen more friendly with Jack than Ralph Paul? Did you see them around more often than you saw Ralph Paul?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now you also mention Adrian High as a person who was friendly with Jack. And I believe, if my understanding is correct, that High, Weisbrod, Lassen, and Ruby were sort of mutual friends?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know whether Adrian was a friend of Ned and Sam or not. I have not seen Adrian High in, oh, since about, I would say about 1956. I had not seen him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know if Weisbrod and Lassen are still in Dallas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When was the last that you knew they were in Dallas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I haven't seen them since the only place I ever saw them was at the Vegas Club, and it's been several years before I quit going with Jack that I had seen them in there. At least 2 years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Jack the kind of person that, if he had problems with somebody or a dispute with somebody, that he would continue to talk about it for some time after it occurred?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He didn't talk to me about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You know some people, when they have a problem, they just have to talk and talk about it until it seems to get out of their system. Did Jack seem to be that kind of a person?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he didn't talk to me about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you ever see Jack getting into any fights with anybody?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever see him hit anybody?

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Mrs. NICHOLS. I never did see him hit anyone. I know that he had had trouble in the club. I would hear about it. But I never did see him. I have seen him put people out of the club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you hear of his fighting with somebody socially, in a social quarrel?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The only time you know of his fighting or hitting somebody was in connection with his acting as a bouncer for the club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I never did see him, but I heard of it. I know that he had a finger--he was putting a man out of his club and a man bit his finger and he had to have it amputated, but I was not there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you dated Jack, how much money was he accustomed to carrying with him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know. I never did ask him and he never did tell me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever see Jack carry a gun with him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I have seen him with a gun when he would have his moneybag for deposit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is his practice? You have seen him take money out of the club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now what was his practice? Would he have the gun at the club, or where would he keep the gun?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know whether he had it at the club or whether he carried it in his pocket.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever see him carry it in his pocket?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I never did ask him if he had a gun in his pocket, and he never did tell me. I never did see him take it out of his pocket. When we would go by the club, he would pick up the money and I would be sitting at a table, and I don't know when he got the gun, whether he got it out of his pocket or whether he kept it at the club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where would you see the gun; on the table or where?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I just saw it with the moneybag, and we would walk out to the car.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He would carry it in his moneybag?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I don't remember ever seeing it in the moneybag, but he used to put it on the seat with the moneybag.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would he ever lock the money up in the trunk of his car?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I never did see him do that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now what did he use to do with his money after he took it out of the club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I thought he put it in a night depository. He would take me home first, and I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You also indicated to the FBI that Jack was a gambler, liked to gamble?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I never did see him gamble, but he told me that he--several times that he had gone back to the Artists Club and played cards after he took me home. I never did see Jack gamble. He never talked to me about that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know who the owner was of the Artists Club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know who owned it. A man by the name of Harris was managing it. I think it was a musicians' union.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of gambling would they have at the Artists Club?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I never did see them gambling there, but I imagine it was cards, I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was this a----
Mrs. NICHOLS. They served food there, and we have gone up there late to get something to eat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they have a back room of some sort where they gambled?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know. I never did see them gambling there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know who Jack gambled with there?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About how often would you say he would go there?

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Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he only mentioned that to me for a short period of time. I would say 3 or 4 months that he mentioned to me that he would go up there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know a man by the name of Johnny Ross?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; I have seen him in the Vegas Club a few times.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I believe you described him as a gambler?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Jack told me that he was a gambler.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know if Jack ever gambled with him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Jack never did mention.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of gambling did Johnny Ross do?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack have any business association with Johnny Ross?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Not that I know of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now Jack called you on the day the President was killed?
Mrs. NICHOLS. That's right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long had it been before then that you had last seen Jack?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I had seen him on the street one time in the spring of 1963 I didn't talk to him. He was driving the car and I was walking.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Before the time that you saw him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. And before that, it had been over a year.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you talked to him on the telephone?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he had not called me in over a year.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now you told Mr. Sayres on the 18th of January that you remembered that Jack had called you at about 2 o'clock on the 22d. How did you happen to remember that at that time?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He called me sometime between 1 and 2, while I was out for lunch and left his number for me to call him. And I called him back as soon after 2, about 10 minutes after 2.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to know that Jack had called?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I go to lunch from 1 to 2 all the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But the first time that you talked with Mr. Sayres, you didn't remember apparently that Jack had called you?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or did you remember at that time?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he didn't ask me about it and I didn't think about the importance of it until this investigation or for the defense attorney asked me about that, if Jack had called me on that day, and I remembered.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did this investigator or one of Jack's lawyers suggest that you ought to call the FBI and let them know about this?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No. I got to thinking about it myself and I thought I wanted to keep the record straight. I wanted to let the FBI know it, too.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did the investigator indicate to you that you might testify for Jack at the trial?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, no; he didn't say. He didn't tell me whether he thought they would use me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have some idea that you might?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, after I talked, after the investigator, contacted me, I was afraid that I might be called.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you ever called?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I didn't attach the importance to the telephone call at the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you testify at the trial?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you willing to testify?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I didn't want to.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was your reaction when you got this telephone call from Jack shortly after the President had been shot?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I was just, I was surprised when he--after the President had been shot?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; that Jack had called you?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; I was surprised. We hadn't been seeing each other and I didn't expect to ever hear from him again, and I was--he seemed to be upset about the President's assassination. I think everyone else was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why do you think Jack called you?

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Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know why he called me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever question his attorney about that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I haven't talked to--never did talk to his attorney.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you talked with Jack since then?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I have not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or any members of his family?
Mrs. NICHOLS. His sister-in-law has called me twice since that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would that be his sister-in-law?
Mrs. NICHOLS. His sister-in-law, Sam's wife.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever ask her why Jack called you that day?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I didn't ask her why.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she ever indicate to you why he called you?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you talked with Jack, when you called him back at around about 2:15 or whenever it was, did you indicate to Jack that you were surprised to hear from him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I didn't say anything to him about that, being surprised.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The FBI reports here, Mr. Sayres' report in his interview of January 18, that Ruby was apparently calling to tell you what a terrible thing he thought it was that President Kennedy had been assassinated. Was there some question as to what Ruby really, why he really was calling?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I was just surprised to hear from him. I don't know why he called me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what he said to you?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't remember the exact words, but the only thing, he just talked about what a terrible thing the assassination was. It was a very short, conversation.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember any particular thing he said?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or words that he used?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I don't remember the words, the exact words that he used.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you be able to tell me if he used the word, "terrible," there?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know whether he used the word, "terrible," or not. But generally it was just, he was just upset about the assassination.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he talk to you at all about the effect that the assassination would have on his business?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he say anything particularly about President Kennedy?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he was talking about the assassination of President Kennedy.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have any, did he say anything about what effect it would have on the city of Dallas, the assassination?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't recall him saying that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now do you have a regular lunch hour?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is your regular lunch hour?
Mrs. NICHOLS. From 1 to 2.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you place the time of the second telephone call that Jack made to you?
Mrs. NICHOLS. In the evening?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, it wasn't late in the evening, and I had finished dinner and had my dishes washed and I was reading the paper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time do you usually eat dinner?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I eat about 6.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was anybody living with you at home?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I live alone.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About how long does it usually take you to eat dinner?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I eat very slow in the evening. I usually listen to music and I usually spend about 30 minutes, I would say. I take my time and drink coffee and I sit at the table.

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Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he say to you when he called you?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he just was talking again about the assassination, and he told me at that time that he was going to the synagogue.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he say about the assassination on the second occasion?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, what a terrible thing it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, weren't you again surprised that he should call you?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, yes; I was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ask him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I didn't ask him why he called me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you indicate your surprise to him in any way?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I didn't indicate it, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he indicate that he would like to see you sometime?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No, he never; I can't recall him asking how I had been or anything personal. He didn't say anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ask you how you felt about the assassination?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I told him I thought it was terrible, too, and I was quite upset about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ask you for any advice of any sort?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You can't think of any reason why Jack should have called you?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The second time that he called you, did you have any indication of where he was calling from?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I have no idea where he was calling from.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you hear any voices in the background?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Television set on?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I don't remember hearing any noise.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you how soon he was going to the synagogue?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he didn't tell me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you which synagogue he was going to?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't believe he did. I assumed it was Shearith Israel because that is where he went.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you dated Jack, did Jack have any dogs?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He got his dog shortly before we stopped going together.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But up until then, he had never owned a dog?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did he happen to buy the dog?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I think the first dog was given to him by someone.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall who gave it to him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No, I don't know whether he told me or not. Or whether it was anyone that I know. I just remembered where he got the dog, and it was killed. It was run over a short while after he got it, so he got another one right after that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of dog was given to him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. It was a dachshund.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was the next dog that he got also a dachshund?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Up until the time that his dog was given to him, had he expressed any interests in dogs?
Mrs. NICHOLS. His sister had a little dog that he--I don't know whether he--I believe it seemed like he had taken care of it some for her.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that Eva Grant?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; she had a dog.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know a man by the name of Abe Kleinman?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; I believe he was a CPA or a bookkeeper. I believe he kept Jack's books, for a period of time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Floyd Turman, do you know him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know any police officers with whom Jack was friendly?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I have seen police officers out there in the club, but I never knew one in particular.

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Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know any of the women that he was friendly with besides yourself?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don't know who else he dated.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about women that he saw in a business connection? Did you see any women in the business? Did he see any women in a business connection?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Not that I know of. I don't know of any.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you think of anything else that we haven't talked about here today that you haven't already told the FBI, that you think would be of importance to the Commission?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I can't think of anything that would be of importance.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you if, as time passes here, and if anything does come to your attention which you think might be helpful to us, if you would contact somebody in the Commission or contact the FBI or the Secret Service and let them know?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I will be glad to.
Mr. GRIFFIN. We also ask you, other than the interviews that Mr. Sayres had with you, have you been interviewed by any member of this staff?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Of this staff?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Prior to having your deposition taken here, did you and I have any interview?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I don't think I have any more questions to ask you.
I want to thank you for coming here and taking all this time to do it, and I realize that you are a working woman and it is an inconvenience to you.
Mrs. NICHOLS. That is quite all right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But it was quite nice of you to spend all of this time.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I am glad to help in any way I can.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Thank you very much.